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 Post subject: Major problem with this game. (From playing Demo)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:12 pm 
Heres an example,

First turn in the game, I deploy a rocket launcher and 4 or those weak vehicles for fodder. Next the computer does the same adjacent to me (Now here is the problem.) the computer then fires its rocket launcher taking out mine and uses its fodder to soften my fodder. My turn again I have a weakened frontline, no artillery and only $2 with which to delpoy a unit, assuming they didn't invade. There is no way to recover from this scenario and it's all because the second player gets to deploy and shoot on the same turn but the first player doesn't.

I think that no player should be able to fire on its first turn, at least then the second player can see the first players troops and deploy his out of range.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:25 pm 
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it is your fault - bad idea to deploy vulnurable units and place them withing striking range at start.At first turn you should deploy cheap units or heavy-armoured units.For example deploy heavy robot not artillery at first turn.If you still want to deploy artillery - place it outside enemy possible striking range (good idea to place it on road so you move it 2 squares next turn)
and btw - about ability to strike first - do you know how often wars in real history started with unexpected sudden strikes? :P


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 Post subject: Re: Major problem with this game. (From playing Demo)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:54 pm 
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Auran wrote:
Heres an example,

First turn in the game, I deploy a rocket launcher and 4 or those weak vehicles for fodder. Next the computer does the same adjacent to me (Now here is the problem.) the computer then fires its rocket launcher taking out mine and uses its fodder to soften my fodder. My turn again I have a weakened frontline, no artillery and only $2 with which to delpoy a unit, assuming they didn't invade. There is no way to recover from this scenario and it's all because the second player gets to deploy and shoot on the same turn but the first player doesn't.

I think that no player should be able to fire on its first turn, at least then the second player can see the first players troops and deploy his out of range.


Well, like in any turn-based game someone starts first... For example in Chess the Blacks have limited possibility to select the Debute.

As for the problem, you are describing - well... it's really a good idea to deploy your Annihilators 4 hexes deeper inside your territory... so that Phantom League's Annihilators cannot hit it.

Anyway, we are planning the tournament soon, and all the players will be playing TWO games against each other - one for FNU and one for PhL, so that this "bad luck" is equally spreaded...


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 Post subject: Re: Major problem with this game. (From playing Demo)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 1:55 pm 
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Vic wrote:
Anyway, we are planning the tournament soon, and all the players will be playing TWO games against each other - one for FNU and one for PhL, so that this "bad luck" is equally spreaded...


How can we find more about this tournament? How are you going to keep it from taking over a month? :)


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 Post subject: Re: Major problem with this game. (From playing Demo)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 2:05 pm 
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Maelstrom wrote:
How can we find more about this tournament? How are you going to keep it from taking over a month? :)


Well, in the Tournaments OF COURSE, there will be a turn time limit...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 2:32 pm 
The problem is on first turn you can't place units "deeper" in your territory because you don't know where the enemies are, you could delpoy it far from a base to the right and find their base is on the left. And regardless of wether you deploy vunerable units or not the enemy still gets first strike, the above was just an example but even deploying a mech could get it killed before it gets a chance to move. Hardly fair.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 3:28 pm 
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Anonymous wrote:
The problem is on first turn you can't place units "deeper" in your territory because you don't know where the enemies are, you could delpoy it far from a base to the right and find their base is on the left. And regardless of wether you deploy vunerable units or not the enemy still gets first strike, the above was just an example but even deploying a mech could get it killed before it gets a chance to move. Hardly fair.


Well, if you suspect both neighbouring countries to be enemy secret allies, ten - yes - you should try detemining those "unreachabele" spots which are safe from the missile fire from both sides...

:wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 11:29 am 
The problemis the computer knows what units you have selected and the position they are in before it reveals its usage of the inside information. The AI is simply defective.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 1:35 pm 
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THE AI NEVER KNOWS YOUR FIRST MOVE WHILE MAKING IT'S FIRST MOVE! IT dosen't know your secret allies. NEVER! AND IT GETS IT's SECRET ALLIES FIXED AT THE START OF "World War". NO SWAPPING.

The first move of "world war" is a blind disclousure of two countries. BLIND!

Secret Allies is the only "fog of war" element in this game...and we've got a "cheater" lable for that :)
will need to cut them out of the new version (let's delay the patch a day or two for this reason ;)

(I'm the AI guy here, working on it's improvement 8) )


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 2:07 pm 
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Sea Wolf
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Never accuse an AI developer of cheating ;)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:22 pm 
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Cool wrote:
The problemis the computer knows what units you have selected and the position they are in before it reveals its usage of the inside information. The AI is simply defective.


I want to make an official statement that in Massive Assault A.I. does NOT uses or sees any inside information, which it is not supposed to see according to the Rules.

The A.I. developers have been given an explicitly explained task to make it "HONEST" and they did it so.


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 Post subject: Tournament
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:01 pm 
Vic wrote:
Anyway, we are planning the tournament soon, and all the players will be playing TWO games against each other - one for FNU and one for PhL, so that this "bad luck" is equally spreaded...


Drooling already! 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:06 pm 
Sky Keeper wrote:
...and we've got a "cheater" lable for that :)
will need to cut them out of the new version (let's delay the patch a day or two for this reason ;)


Errr... I donґt understand this sentence. :P Can you clarify?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 6:02 am 
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Coffeedragon wrote:
Sky Keeper wrote:
...and we've got a "cheater" lable for that :)
we'll need to cut them out of the new version (let's delay the patch a day or two for this reason ;)


Errr... I donґt understand this sentence. :P Can you clarify??/quote]


It was a joke :)
A bad joke about cutting "Secret Allies" concept out from the game to make people believe that AI is honest. :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 3:43 pm 
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tournamnt sounds good to bad i suck. I remember the other tournament , didn't participate in it though.


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 Post subject: 2 dryfire
PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 4:24 pm 
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i had not understood what you were trying to say :o


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 3:09 pm 
Actually from what I've seen it's worse than what you describe...

On your first turn you get to disclose 2 allies
On the AIs first turn it gets to disclose 3 allies as well as attack you, all in one turn.

(doesn't one have to register for this forum, had to test)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 3:43 pm 
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Divvy wrote:
Actually from what I've seen it's worse than what you describe...

On your first turn you get to disclose 2 allies
On the AIs first turn it gets to disclose 3 allies as well as attack you, all in one turn.


Gentlemen:
I would like to explain in other words how the first disclosure works:

During the first turn both sides disclose two Secret Allie each - and this happens SIMULTANEOULSLY and BLINDLY.

Then it's Phantom League's turn - they move, shoot and at the end of their turn they have the disclosure phase - and they can disclose the third ally - but the units recruitted during this second disclosure - they do NOT move or shoot until the next turn.

And here is one more turn:
while playing the World War against A.I. you may switch sides and select to be Phantom League yourself - then you'll be moving first after the first disclosure.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 4:00 pm 
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Divvy wrote:
(doesn't one have to register for this forum, had to test)


Well, it is suggested that this forum users register, but they are not obliged...

You know, the registration is simple ...


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