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 Post subject: World War vs AI on Emerald (This AI is tough!)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 11:34 pm 
I have not been able to beat it at Emerald world war in the demo for the life of me. I have simply been getting owned! I played about 6 games on this map and have yet to see the AI do something stupid. Everything it does from what units it buys to how it uses them is just done well. I like a challenging game and this is certainly just that. In fact I think this may possibly be one of the smartest AIs I have ever seen in a TBS game. I am sure multi-player games are a blast too! I am going to see if I can get to the store tomorrow and buy the full version means I have just about worn this demo out :)


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2003 12:59 am 
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some of us arn't as challenging as teh AI. but if you wnat a real challenge challenge a dev.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2003 3:42 am 
Well it does do stupid things as well, if you have managed to create a real killing field (lots of rocket launchers, planes mortars etc...) so that you can kill anything they throw at you. The AI often keeps sending a steady stream of tanks at you, none of which even manage to get a single shot off.

...and they don't build transports/carriers and hardly ever amphibians.


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 Post subject: Re: This AI is tough!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2003 6:57 am 
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Warspite wrote:
I have not been able to beat it at Emerald world war in the demo for the life of me. I have simply been getting owned! I played about 6 games on this map and have yet to see the AI do something stupid. Everything it does from what units it buys to how it uses them is just done well. I like a challenging game and this is certainly just that. In fact I think this may possibly be one of the smartest AIs I have ever seen in a TBS game. I am sure multi-player games are a blast too! I am going to see if I can get to the store tomorrow and buy the full version means I have just about worn this demo out :)


Definitely buy it! Itґs a really great game. MP is very, very exciting. AI is not quite as good on large planets/planets with lots of water. Reason being it seems not to like Battleships and Land/Sea Transports. But in the hand-crafted scenarios/campaigns, the AI is a challenge, of course. And for World Wars, there is always us! 8) Also, the designers are adding nice little things all the time, like new scenarios/planets. They know that happy customers = free advertising. :D I did already give MA maximum points in review at the store where I bought it, and think about buying another copy to give it to a friend.


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 Post subject: Re: This AI is tough!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2003 12:08 pm 
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Coffeedragon wrote:
D I did already give MA maximum points in review at the store where I bought it, and think about buying another copy to give it to a friend.


Thanks a lot Coffeedregon...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2003 1:43 pm 
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posting replay of won world war agaist AI on Emerald if you warspite want to look


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WWemerald.rep [32.76 KiB]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2003 1:47 pm 
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DryFire wrote:
some of us arn't as challenging as teh AI. but if you wnat a real challenge challenge a dev.

i dont think so
even a total n00b can sometimes think of something...creative
but AI just always repeats same set of primitive actions and it's so easy to learn them all
adn after you learn playing with AI become boring like hell


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 3:48 am 
Watched your replay, nice job! The AI was putting up a good fight in the beginning though. I seen you put those transports to use and they helped alot. Also I noticed you purchased more tanks then those lavs. This was something I was not really doing, I was buying more lavs because they are so cheap. In the beginning when you had bought alot of tanks, it seemed to make a difference. Your country position was pretty good at start too. I played again and tried some things you had done but it never worked for me :lol: The AI seemed to really outnumber me and one of my countries was surrounded. I ended up losing again.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 5:15 am 
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just another replay of WW on emerald...think shows even better how dumb AI is...
and just for you info - there is no such thing as "good" or "bad" starting position
there are though good and bad strategies


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WWemerald2.rep [21.65 KiB]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 7:09 am 
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Guess what?:) Yes,it`s another replay.Meaning even a total newbie can beat the AI here...although I have to admit that my allies placement was ideal.


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File comment: 1st means it was the first time I ever played on that map.
WWemerald1st.rep [32.85 KiB]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 12:57 pm 
Nice replays! Mrakobes you pretty much mopped them up that time it was not even close. There was only one decent battle at the far south of the map and thats it. Magistr I was surprised at how you were able to stop that massive colume of tanks the AI had sent at you from the north. It looked scary for a minute there but you were able to take control. Plus a few other situations looked ugly but you managed to conquer it.

It seems making use of tanks and transports are the key to victory. It also seems you can drive some loaded transports up on the road just next to the border of a country, then next turn drive it on in and take over and drop off the units. Magistr, you have done this alot and it worked good. The AI was building alot more LAVs and you guys were building Tanks and that was a big difference. Those Tanks were just killing them weak LAVs. Then I noticed both of you get a few bombers out within the first few turns.

Is there some reason you guys select Red side? I have been picking Green.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 1:21 pm 
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Warspite wrote:

Is there some reason you guys select Red side? I have been picking Green.


If you consistently pick green, you will be well liked in Multiplayer. :wink:

(Red is a bit better, because it moves first after Disclosure.)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 2:30 pm 
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why pick reds? purely for roleplay reasons 8)
you see Phantom League is vile agressive dictatorship featuring totalitarian regime,racial segregation,total defiance of all civil rights and liberties,constant political purges,public executions of dissidents,henocide of some national minorities,concentration camps......
and stuff :roll:
and just felt like helping those nice guys to control the planet 8)
and btw since FNU represent evolution of current USA it seems a good idea to beat them up in game (since this not happened in RL..yet :P )


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 4:15 pm 
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Mrakobes wrote:
...and btw since FNU represent evolution of current USA it seems a good idea to beat them up in game (since this not happened in RL..yet :) )


There is some truth in what you say, but my main reason to pick PL is still the 1 move advantage they get.

What can I say, I am a pragmatic, and every little bit helps... 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2003 12:06 pm 
This could be one reason why I been losing. By me selecting green, I don't get to move first and that is an advantage. Plus I have not been using the land transports too much, seems like it makes a huge difference.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2003 12:24 pm 
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this subject was discussed like hundreds of times in other topics and that's so boring
all whiney n00bs play for FNU and they endlessly cry and complain about that Phantom League enemy attacks them first and they get owned.
well yes red side gets first move just like in chess whites make a first turn but if you think that's disbalance you VERY wrong.After all try playing Phantom league and you will be allowed to make first attack and you will learn that is NOT easy. Yes you may destroy a few units by first attack but you dont know what enemy will be deploying and where are his allies.So if you make mistakes during first deployment they may prove FATAL so sometimes its actually more difficult to play Phantom League.
But actually "right of first turn" can matter alot only on small maps where troops often clash instantly after first disclosure.
On Large maps enemies usually find each other separated by huge open spaces so there it doesnt matter at all who gets first turn.
and once again - ANY judgements about this game based on play against AI are POINTLESS because REAL fun of this game is in playing online against strong opponent.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2003 2:10 pm 
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Iґd rate the Red advantage at about 4$, possibly 6. Yes, itґs not that much, but between equal players, and especially on a small map, it can be decisive.

One possibility would be that Red discloses first. Green gets to see Red disclosure, before he discloses, then Red gets first turn. I think in this case they would be perfecly equal.

But perhaps a slight Red advantage is intentional, and really competitive games should be played in pairs. Thatґs ok with me.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2003 2:29 pm 
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guess what? yes since here is three emerald worldwar replays this one more
this one is multiplayer game me vs honna
- though emerald is small planet but both sides units not clashed withing the first turn
-both sides used the initial moves to attack two neutral countries (without fast success)
- after that the situation cleared and the outcome was decided by purely tactical decisions (and mistakes)
well it is the first turn what decided victory here? not at all


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vsHonnaonEmerald.rep [16.28 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: This AI is tough! Or not
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2003 12:57 pm 
Warspite wrote:
I have not been able to beat it at Emerald world war in the demo for the life of me. I have simply been getting owned! I played about 6 games on this map and have yet to see the AI do something stupid. Everything it does from what units it buys to how it uses them is just done well. I like a challenging game and this is certainly just that. In fact I think this may possibly be one of the smartest AIs I have ever seen in a TBS game. I am sure multi-player games are a blast too! I am going to see if I can get to the store tomorrow and buy the full version means I have just about worn this demo out :)


The AI is hard to beat sometimes and very agressive, but I instantly spotted stupid things with it (Only played the Demo). A weakend LAV (or any unit I assume) for instance will always attract the AIs fire, even if that fire could be better used elsewhere. This is escpeciialy true of planes fire power. As such you use weakened uinits to great effect saving other more units. As mentioend above it also attacks strong holds incorrectly meaning you can outlast it.

Since people are posting there Demo-emrauld maps I post mine and ask for some comments. I am after all a newbie.

-Firstly I only think I survived because I had a third secure country to fund my other two. I left my last SA till near the end cause it would have been a slater if disclosed.
-My eastern country was pinned down between the planes and long range units (3 damage) of the enemy. The tunnel also restricts and funnels adavcnes. How could I have pushed the attack here?
-My western assault was costly due some stupid mistakes. Didnt know how to check the enemies range yet.
-I disclosed my final SA near the end as a distraction, and to divide the enemies forces. I think it worked.
-My final assault also costly due to some mistakes and those blasted planes.

All comments welcome,

Chaos


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2004 9:07 am 
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Coffeedragon wrote:
But perhaps a slight Red advantage is intentional, and really competitive games should be played in pairs. Thatґs ok with me../quote]


YES.

Absolutely true. That's why in all the official tournaments there games will be always in pairs - switchng sides. That literally equalizes the chances of both sides (put random Secre Allies distribution aside).

And if anyone volonteers to organize its own MA tournament, you are highly suggested to make the games in pairs.


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